A couple of you know a lot about foxes and I wanted to hear what you thought about

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.

In fact here's another domestic fox:

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I think I feel a little sick

Unfortunately some people do "own" foxes as pets but then again, some people think cougars and tigers make good pets. Dogs have been carefully bred from wolves over thousands of years to fit in with the Human way of doing things, but with foxes you have raw nature that cannot be trained, house-trained or even (so I'm told) properly tamed. Foxes make awful pets but great wildlife. I really don't get people who use animals as status symbols. Guess you could say the same about certain breeds of dogs - some people just own them for the "look".

I blame Disney for making out that all animals think the same way

BTW, the fox in the second video is a Fennec fox, a very tiny species from North Africa and the Middle East.

EDIT: Oh, I see, it does say that on the video. But, honestly, I did recognise it anyway :mrgreen:

I do think that the foxes are cute, but in what context where they raised? They are meant to be wild. So changing them to be what they are not, is twisting what they where created for.
As I read on one of the hundrends of sites about having foxes as pets, if you want a pet fox, your best bet is to get a dog that looks abit like a fox.. not a real one. There are many dogs that make great pets, just treat them right and you will have a friend for life.

Wisefox

Unfortunately lots of animals are taken from the wild to be kept as pets including reptiles, birds including parrots and finches and even primates. Sad world we live in. Even my first two sand geckos probably originated from the wild

The pet foxes I have heard of here in the UK are those that would be unable to survive in the wild and became a "pet" by default - they had a handicap (just being blind or deaf is an early dealth for most animals) or were too tame to be released.

Suppose things are completely different over there though, with people keeping tigers and stuff a fox would just be a kitty cat in comparision!

I don't see anything wrong with keeping captive bred pet foxes - afterall where have all the current captive bred pets come from but wild individuals?

But even a captive breed fox will still have the instincts of a wild one. Think how different human societies were when wolves were being domesticated. After watching my garden foxes playing, exploring, and generally being foxes, I doubt any zoo / pet owner, no matter how well meaning, can offer them a comparable life.

Of course, when you have an injured fox that cannot be released, that's a different matter.

What about other animals then? Parrots, monkys, birds of prey, owls, reptiles...many of these are snatched from the wild also and the geneations have recent wild ancestors.

Many dogs don't get the lives they should have, the extremes being beaten and abused others just getting so fat through too much food and too little excercise that in the end they can barely move. Perhaps the better option would be to ban all pets because of some not getting the lives they should...

Yes, you're right that all wildlife should remain wild but people don't know this or they ignore the advice for others. I'm gonna take this one step at a time and only discuss about the foxes though, since I did most research on them.

If some one sees an injured fox and it need caring for for one reason or another, then it should not take it in as a pet. They can bring it to their home if they feel that is nesscary but then they need to call a local wildlife rescue organization. But not keep it as a pet. Same with all the other animals that you have listed.

Dogs however have been accompanied by humans for thousands of years and now live as a part of that. They are no longer wild by nature (except for maybe one or two breeds).

And the problem with keeping a pet fox is because most people think they're like dogs or cats and will treat them like that. One of those videos, I think, have some one trying to make the fox bark so obviously this person thinks that the fox is just like the dog. But foxes will dig lots of holes in their backyard and the owners of that home will not like it. The foxes will make loud calls in the night when they get older, the owners will not like it. It's not just barking of a fox, they make strange calls and louds screams.

Just because the people you seen treat them like cats or dogs doesn't mean everyone will, those people are quite obviously just idiots that do not know what they are keeping as pets. I do know someone from another forum who keeps exotic mammals as pets, among them a family of Fennec Foxes (think there were 2 adults and 4-5 juveniles) that live in a large, zoo-style enclosure in the house (I think it was a spare bedroom but I'm not sure). If someone knows the pet they are keeping, knows how to care for it what does it matter? As long as they aren't taken from the wild what is the problem?

Dogs also dig in the garden - as do rabbits and some dogs do make a lot of noise at night, as do cats. The noise argument can be applied to numerous other domestic animals.

As for having the animals at wildlife centres, they are there to re-release animals back into the wild not build up a collection of long-term captives. The more animals they have that can't be returned to the wild the less space there is to take in others that are injured and can be re-released. As far as I'm concerned, a wildlife centres resources should be spent on wildlife that can be rehabilitated, not those that can't. And even those that are healthy can become too used to people and as a result you have a healthy animal that can't be returned to the wild because of that.

I personally wouldn't keep exotic mammals as pets. But similar arguments are used against keeping reptiles as pets. Why? My reps live in decent size naturalistic enclosures, they get kept in the right conditions and have everything they need. If the same is true of those keeping members of the dog family, why make an issue of it? If the foxes are from generations of CB animals, returning them to the wild probably isn't a good idea because they can harbour parasites or diseases that can be fatal to their true wild cousins as in captivity they don't share as much of a vulnerability to disease due to (if kept correctly) being free from harsh weather, getting a good diet and if ill getting vet treatment.

As always, they will be idiots that don't keep the foxes right but there are idiots that can't take care of goldfish. Doesn't mean everyone else should have to lose their pets as a result.

It'd be nice if animals would just live as they were meant too. But it's fine with me if they're pets. . . as long as they have done plenty of research.

You know, there is a solid chance that the mother was killed and these pups are being fostered. It isn't certain either way, and though taking pups from the wild is horrible, you can't be too quick to judge between that and a rescue.

Though, it's obvious that those kits are going to be kept as pets. If someone finds fox kits, take them to your local wildlife rescue organization; they are not dogs, they are not cats, they are wild animals.

Of course, I must admit that I have a strong urge to have a fox as a pet though if I were to bring one to a local rescue orgainzation, I'm sure they would let me visit occasionally and that'd be enough for me.

A wildlife rescue organization wouldn't raise young animals in a facility, if it could be avoided. It is common practice for a trained employee to take the animal(s) home with them, considering it is a round-the-clock job to take care of them.

Ah, that'd be something to find out about this person. Though I think she's treating them too much like how you'd treat puppies.

If the foxes are in a program linked to a wildlife organization then they should return the the facility or sanctuary when they . . . well, around that age they should be returned to an outdoors setting so they become familar with nature and so they can be released into the wild soon.

Yes, they need to be returned quickly to the wild. Not a lot can be determined from the video, though, about how long they are going to be kept.

I don't really see anything wrong with keeping a found truely orphaned wild animal except that it is illegal in almost every state with one partial exception that I know of.

The Ar propaganda we have shoved down our throughts our whole lives is only a fairly recent phenomina. History is filled with it being common practice for people to take in wildlife.

Ringtail cats or miner cats a relative or racoons is a prime example. Early settlers routinely kept them as pets even letting them run free like real cats would be kept.

It was not even unheard of for people to have skunks and back then they weren't descented. Now skunks are as domesticated as ferrets. they even have skunk shows like cat shows.

Still legal issues aside it is best to take an orphaned animal to someone that knows what they are doing.

But as for just foxes and other exotics as pets there's really nothing wrong with it. Exotics are actualy less abused and less neglected and less often rehomed than domestics are in part because it is much harder in most cases to get it in the first place and the people do their home work. There are a few cases of people getting an exotic on impulse like from an auction but it's not the norm.

Plus technecly it's illegal to rehome your exotic since you need a liscense to buy sell or give away nondomestic mammals but they usualy over look a one time thing of finding a new home. It's actualy much very hard to find a rescued exotic to adopt, ture exotics not so much really common ones like ferrets but still harder to find one than a dog or cat. Harder to find one that's been abused or neglected. That's why the few cases to make the news of exotic abuse because it;s rare. Those with an agenda though will make you think it's the norm.

If the animal is healthy and happy then things like cage size ect are all just personal preference and debatable among keepers.

Look at zoos almost all big cat escapes and attacks ahve been zoos or other comerical keepers not pet big cats. I've dug up the statistics in the past but wont unless you make me now. There is an average of one big cat incident per year and hundreds of thousdand dog attacks a year if you take the AR claim of 10,000 tiggers and at least 20,000 big cats kept privatly the percent is not even a tenth of a percent or big cats attack where as dogs it is a real percentage number. that means either the dogs are more dangerouse or dog owners are not as good of keepers as pet big cat owners.

Most exotics are born and bred in captivity so they never miss the wild. Heck my Pua came from the wild and most times is reluctant now to go outside. She much prefers domestic life I don't like the idea of taking an animal from the wild just to have one though. Pua came to me legaly after over a year of trying due to all the government red tape. But I will get her a mate in the future so it keeps the species going and future people will have a choice to buy wild or captive bred.

The same people that don't want you to own exotics don't want you to have dogs or cats. They are man made and bad mutants that are detramental to wildlife. They have said they would love for all domestic animals to die out and then zero contact between humans and wildlife. Really it's more like they hate or fear animals and are trying to do away with them by pretending they want whats best for them.

By the way fennecs can bark they just don't do it very much. It looked to me like she was trying to get it to do that on comand by saying the comand when it did it. A good way to teach.

All animals can be taught. I even had a pet chicken once I tought how to "sit" con command but it was more of a lay as she squished herself to the ground. A chicken is a domestic but it still wouldn't make a good dog but could be a decent pet for some.

Lots of animals most never blink an eye at are actualy exotics, all the birds in pet store lizards and fish as were mentioned but with mammals and the birds most are bred in captivity now especialy since most places with the birds and mammals like that wont export them and it's more expensive to get on smuggled in than a more healthy domesticly bred one. Only total idiots would do that, does happen but not as much as they want you to think.

The only people in the US taking tigers from the wild now are zoos as was shown in recent news when they brought in a shipment of tigers that were split up to different zoos.

The point being you may not like the idea and I can sort of understand that but we exotic owners are not unlike any other group that is being persecuted because we don't fit the norm but aren't harming anyone. Yes prosecute anyone who abuses or neglects an animal but otherwise let us be. It because so many people constantly have the message beat into then bad pets no one should have, that laws are being passed left and right taking away our right to won exotics. so we can be a little touchy but we don't mean to be mean. I try to speak fairly to educate not bash or anything. just "debating" in away and speaking our side.